DOMA Dammit

soapboxpileDOMA, The Defense of Marriage Act, signed by President William Jefferson Clinton on 21-September-1996 to protect ‘marriage’ and the government. No, Bill Clinton does not get a pass on this despite his current stand in support of Gay Marriage, despite his ‘Don’t do as I did, do as I say now.’ DOMA was then and is now an over-reach by the Federal Government based on Christian standards of marriage being between a one man and one woman, this despite there being nothing anywhere in the Bible to support this view, in fact if we want to be specific the Mormons had it right didn’t they? There are plenty of examples sprinkled throughout that tome our friends in Washington and all their little legislator whisperer’s like to point to when in doubt of marriage being between One Man and plenty of women.

Now that is today, in 2013 the social tide has shifted tremendously and the majority of the public isn’t so certain it is fair or even right to withhold Civil Rights from their fellow citizens simply because they are different. Different as in, they want to marry the same gender versus the opposite gender, nothing more or less that is really the only difference. They are now and always have been part of our society, they do now and always have paid taxes, fought in our wars, lived next door to us, had families, formed long-lasting and monogamous relationships. What they haven’t had, what we have prevented them from accessing is all the rights and privileges we take for granted, things like;

  • Rights of survivorship
  • Inheritance
  • Immigration
  • Next of kin, medical decision making and the right to visit a loved one in the hospital
  • Parenting children born in the relationship after the death of the natural parent
  • Tax benefits
  • Healthcare benefits
  • Social Security survivorship benefits
    • And a host of both private and public benefits marriage allows

All this because there are some people within our society, predominantly within the Christian

scene outside the Supreme Court day 1

scene outside the Supreme Court day 1

Evangelical Right who gained a heavy foothold in our government

and demanded their rights supersede the rights of others.  These

Christians demanded their religious standards and beliefs be written

into the law and be enforceable based on their interpretation of the

Bible. This despite the First Amendment of the Constitution, guaranteeing our individual right to be free to worship and free of a state sponsored religion.

Thus far, eight (8) Federal Courts have found section 3 of DOMA unconstitutional, this includes both the First and Second Courts of Appeals. Today was the second day of oral arguments before the Supreme Court in United States vs. Windsor. It is important to note, the Administration and the Justice Department refused to defend DOMA, John Boehner, Speaker of the House used House Rules to convene the Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group and subsequently hire a private law firm to defend DOMA before SCOTUS. I suppose the GOP just can’t let go.

Nevertheless, on to my real issue, where do these idiots come from? What rocks do these azzhats crawl out from under? Really, this one is presumably educated, talented, knowledgeable and highly respected in his field. This narcissist gives me a true case of the red ass I must say. He became the darling of the right wing simply by showing he had no class, by taking the President to task in a public forum; big f’ng deal you are classless. But then, so are most of those you are attempting to emulate you fit right in.

Let me just ask how did you get through medical school and not ‘believe’ in evolution? How do you teach at Johns Hopkins and not know the most recent findings on homosexuality?

How can you a presumably educated and compassionate person say this (3:40 is relevant to this)

Never mind, I know. Because you are so steeped in your personal prejudice, your personal bias you fail to step out of your box. I do not give two plugged nickels how many surgeries you perform successfully every year. Personally? I wouldn’t allow you to attempt to put the head back on my Barbie doll.

I think SCOTUS is going to find in favor of Ms. Windsor, I think they will find section 3 unconstitutional and strike down DOMA. This will mean we still have a very long ways to go, each state will still be putting the rights of our fellow citizens to a vote but it is at least one step in the right direction.

DOMA and the government report Justice Kagan referred to in her questions yesterday:


  1. Dr. Ben Carson is an example of someone “believing his own press” and allowing himself to be used. This is not the Dr. Ben of old–a person I’ve long admired but who I’m quickly coming to disdain. Somebody (hardline religious conservatives) has been whispering in his ear and he has swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. When he was a younger doctor, he was full of compassion, nonjudgmental, uber-liberal, and gifted with the surgical hands of a god. His story of how he overcame poverty and illiteracy, going on to be educated at Yale, borders on the mystical. I think the key lines to his demise (make no mistake, he just shot himself in the foot as far as a future in politics is concerned) is that he’s “retiring this year” and he’s been shopping for a TV show. So if you want to get noticed by Fox News, take cheap shots at the President while he’s sitting behind you at a prayer breakfast where both the Repubs and the Dems where supposed to leave their barbs at the door in honor of brotherhood and the love of God. Apparently, it worked; he was immediately swooped up by Fox for interviews and a speech at CPAC.

    And then there’s always the money angle: “Sales of ‘America the Beautiful,’ his (Ben Carson) latest book, soared to 46,000 in the six weeks since his prayer breakfast speech, from fewer than 1,000 sold this year before to the speech, according to Nielsen BookScan.” The New York Times.

    Here comes another Sarah Palin. . .

    • The desire for fame has shifted his center. He loses. I give him nothing but a kick in the shins for playing to a base that will do nothing but take him for a ride and then discard him.

      He is far to young to retire from medicine. You are right he is gifted. He chooses to squander his gift to pursue fleeting fame.

  2. frigginloon says:

    OMG LOL. I actually witnessed a massive fight last week over the very same question…. how did you get through medical school and not ‘believe’ in evolution? It wasn’t pretty. Seems there is no such thing as nature, it is all god’s doing.

  3. Man made laws! don’t get me started on some of them Val…LOL… Just getting back into the blogging world Val and this one a little too heavy for my relaxed brain right now!.. And not understanding the history of this one I will leave well alone…
    Have a great rest of the evening where you are Love Sue

  4. Gray Dawster says:

    As always you have written a worthy offering my great friend and now that I have enjoyed your words how about sharing one of your chocolate eggs with me? 🙂 Mmmm I always enjoy a bit of that, nooooo the other, no I mean the chocolate cheeky, well not the cheeky chocolate but the… You know what I mean? 😉 lol Have a lovely afternoon Val and mine is with no sugar, the coffee after the eggs 🙂 Oh I give up… lol xxx

  5. Running from Hell with El says:

    I am just stunned that this is still such a contentious issue. Stunned.

  6. Even Webster’s first definition includes SSM as marriage: IJS

  7. I do not understand why anyone has to be punished for something that is out of their control. You do not know who you are until after you are born and have lived.

  8. As a gay man, I hold no bad feelings towards Ol’ Bill.. he did what he’d been pressured to do. I understand your arguments about him not getting a pass — and, there’s some truth in that. But, political expediency is sometimes necessary — it’s about knowing what fights to pick, and which ones to give in on in order to get something else.

    No, there’s no excuse for it, it was bad legislation, but, it’s had the advantage of being a rallying cry, it’s helped organize the gay community in ways that might not have been possible without it. And, it really brought the subject out of the closet — yes, it defined marriage, but, it sparked a conversation that might not have been sparked. Every movement needs a ‘moment’ to ignite the spark… yes, there was Stonewall, back in the 1960s, but, the activism that came out of it wasn’t widespread. In many ways, DOMA has had the opposite effect than what was intended.

    I’m sympathetic to your stance on WJC, but, I think, in the end, history will show that while maybe he shouldn’t have signed it in the first place, it was the spark that has moved us as far as we are today. When he signed DOMA, most of us who were gay still had very little hope we’d ever be allowed to marry, so, while we were disappointed, I don’t think it crushed much hope. Being gay was still not an okay thing back then. Sixteen years later people are coming out of the closet right and left, we can serve openly in the military, many states allow civil unions (my state just passed that law!).

    I don’t think Clinton saw into the future, saw that the end result would be such a fast-forward rush towards acceptance, but, I don’t know that he needs to walk around with too much guilt either.

    • John, my issues with Clinton and political expediency go far beyond DOMA take my word for it. There is an alphabet soup to lay at his feet. But DOMA, this one is a Constitutional issue and if you read link, the entire argument surrounding DOMA, gad.

      I do appreciate what you have said, I hadn’t really viewed the entire issue in light of the spark it lit. Thank you.

      • We tend to get embroiled (pun intended) in the catalyst. I have a modicum of forgiveness for this in light of the then and now. However, I think his cohorts should embrace his change of stance.

  9. I think you are beig a bit hard on Clinton. A decade ago, this issue was seen much differently. I don’t know the cirumstances of the passing of DOMA but sometimes Politicians have to make a choice about which battle they are going to fight at a particular time, Clinton may have calculated that he should let this one go as he had another more important issue to win. At least he is in favour of it now – he has nothing to gain – no elections to win.

    I was unthinkingly against gay marriage when the issue first appeared on the landscape, simply because I found the idea a bit bizzare. But since hearing all the arguements it makes perfect sense. It’s none of my business anyway. We’ve come a long way in my lifetime from “The love that dare not speak it’s name” on pain of imprisonment to the British Prime Minster ( a right wing Etonion) pushing through a gay rights marriage act.

    The Cathoilic Church is going to be a bit of an uphill struggle – but then they wanted kill Galileo for suggesting the Earth revolved around the Sun.

    • No, not hard enough I think. Don’t get me wrong, I actually like Bill but this doesn’t excuse him from the choices he made whether to preserve his political career or otherwise. Yes, I understand people can change their minds over time. I understand our positions can change over time. DOMA isn’t a position however, DOMA stripped an entire group of citizens of the United States of their rights based on nothing more than their identification as Gay even after a State gave them the right to Marry. DOMA was unconstitutional and was done on the basis of Religious bias.

      No, Clinton doesn’t get a pass for political expediency.

      The Catholic Church may hold their ground, I couldn’t care less what they or any other religious institution have to say. Marriage is only a legal standing in this nation. The government must only recognize the legal right to ‘marry’ and the status of ‘spouse’. It is frankly irrelevant whether said marriage is performed in Kirk, park or Court; by Judge, Justice or Pastor. Marriage is a legal standing.

      • Well, I broke my own rule there: “before opening mouth, make sure brain is engaged”

        I just went off and read all about DOMA. God, that bill and it’s consequences are a mess. I can see why you’re angry at Bill Clinton. He was pre-occupied with the coming election and just agreed to an ill considered bill sponsored by a biggoted right.

        Fotunately, there is a wind of change blowing across the landscape and one day soon all this will be behind us. Then the next find will present itself. Here in the UK, the people who really oppose same sex marriage are the old guard; clinging to their age old ideas. The current and next generation don’t give a damn who marries who – and they are the ones who will vote out the biggots.

        But I fear that over there, the struggle is going to be a longer road. You are cursed with a kind of christian Taliban. They cannot seperate any of the issues from sex. They seem incapable of expressing love, or empathising with anyone not of their opinion.

        Let’s hope the Doma will soon join the Dodo.

        • sorry, meant to say – then the next battle will present itself.

        • We can only hope this nation and its people will engage, that the old guard will actually fall off the map and the Taliban of the Bible will fall back into their churches where they may thunder Damnation and Hell Fire to those who give a hoot.

        • Amen to the Christian Taliban. I am so glad I am not the only one who makes that analogy. The fact you are removed from me by an ocean may dilute it for others, but for me, it makes you a kindred spirit.

          • You too Red, and Valentine. Both great women with even greater minds. You call it an ocean, I see it as a couple of inflight movies, a plate of mush and 40,000 gallons of jet fuel and I’m there.

  10. Great post!
    I’m gay, married to man for 3 years already, been together for 6 and I;m still trying to understand how we threaten the pilars of society. Back home the conservative protestants and in here the catholics, the problem is religion and rotten in our government is, like it or not. In Spain gay marriage has been legal for a couple of year, last year when the Popular Party won the congress and the senate tried to ban gay marriage, took to the supreme court but the Court dismissed their case, now they are trying to through technicalities change the name from “marriage” to “same sex civil unions” which would basically remove all the rights, sneaky bastards, they don’t pay not plan our weddings damn it!

    • The beat goes on and on doesn’t it, not just here in the US but elsewhere around the world. I am so tired of people trying to sneak into the lives of others and make them less than human, less then themselves simply for how they are born or if you like ‘how they are formed by God in the womb.’

      This mania regarding what God does or does not love or approve of simply most end. Last I heard, God only wrote 10 laws all by his little old lonesome and these say nothing about marriage, homosexuality or anything closely resembling minding the affairs of others.

      Congrats on marrying the person you loved. May all the years ahead of you be happy and filled with love.

      • If the book is really about only one verse, which is rescinded in the rest of the book, why, oh why, are we (proverbially of course), 2000 years hence, still hanging onto a sunken piece of driftwood?

  11. Why do we continue to celebrate ignorance? I do not understand.

    I have a whole lot of respect for the numerous doctors I have had at Johns Hopkins. That’s where I had my life-changing surgery. When I am nervous and need a second opinion, that’s where I go. This guy makes me think that their standards have, umm, changed. Either that or they are hiring doctors on a “we need m ore stupid people” program.

  12. It seems we are inundated with azzhats.

  13. Regarding DOMA and the High Court, I see Kennedy and Roberts forming the majority … but possibly on different grounds. In terms of Ben Carson, I have a difficult time giving credence to anyone promoted by Sean Hannity

  14. Clinton only signed DOMA into law as a matter of political preservation, as that was during an election year. I’ve known a few married couples who haven’t had children and I’ve known more than a few people who’ve been married more than once. I suppose they’re all sinners or lawbreakers in the eyes of the self-righteous Christian elites. I suspect the SC will overturn DOMA on a very narrow margin.

    • Clinton does not get a pass, not for political preservation or any other reason. He has changed his position since then. Sorry, Clinton like every politician did things to preserve himself rather than to do what is right. Tired of how we lionize those who were more worried about themselves than the nation and the people who elected them.

      Actually, you are right those who Divorce, Cheat, etc. are far more lawbreakers than those who simply want to marry. Shhhhh, don’t tell the self-righteous that it would pop their bubble.

      • I think he just hit on the turning tide for the law itself. If marriage is between one man and one woman, divorce would need to be illegal. *evil wheels turning legally*

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